Glenn? (illegal selling)

Discussions about turtles.
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lulumac1
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I have a question for glennthiltgen. I went to your site and I saw scrolling across the screen about the selling of turtles under 4\". Are you saying by this that it is ok to buy turtles under 4\" or that we should be able to? Or are you just adding that for an FYI? I know that there are exceptions to the law, but if you are selling turtles how is it not in connection with a business? I guess if a single owner sales to someone, but does not take this as an income, that person is exempt. There are always ways to get around something! I actually think there should be stricter laws about the buying and selling of turtles.

By the way has anyone ever heard of this law beining inforced? I know there are several people who have purchased illegal sized turtles, including some members of this board, unknowingly. I myself found George, which I beleive it is also illegal to take a turtle from its natural environment. I have actually read that this law isn\'t really inforced to its fullest extent.

Just wanting to know.
turtlecrazed
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Lulu,
Actually the law HAS been enforced very much lately. Maybe you haven\'t heard about the raid at a reptile show where hundreds of turtles were confiscated. It is illegal to sell turtles under 4\" unless for exhibit, export, or education. ( I myself think it\'s a load of fecies aside from saving turtles from pet store situations. ) But you can give them away or adopt them out. I totally disagree with the law. Next they will be telling us we can\'t keep turtles at all, which they do already in some states. Every one has their own opinion, but my opinion is this law stinks.
I definitely don\'t think breeders who lovingly raise and nurture these turtles are criminals for selling the babies.
Sorry, to get fired up, but the government seized hundreds of turtles and the last i heard they were all frozen to death.
Some law.....Boy they really saved the turtles with that law huh?
GlennThiltgen
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I don\'t think they should have stricter laws on selling turtles. First of all if you keep your turtles habitat clean to begin with you shouldn\'t have to worry about salmonella. Second of all it\'s not always a good idea to be kissing your turtles for any reason, and you should always wash your hands after handling them just to prevent stuff like that from happening. Any turtle well taken care of will not have salmonella or any other kind of disease.
lulumac1
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To begin with I wasn\'t trying to be rude or anything. I was merely asking what the purpose was of what was on your site. And simply trying to raise a discussion.

I\'m not necessarily talking about the law for size to be stricter. I know that was put in place for salemonella, which I have no problem with. Several families buy turtles for children, and children have a habbit of not washing hands proprely, not to mention the fact that some parents are ignorant on the subject and don\'t realize they carry diseases.

I don\'t agree with the destruction of these turtles when confunscated. However, I do think there should be laws set in place for the selling and distribution of these turtles. Not everyone is like you all and knows about turtles. Pet stores and flea markets do not keep these turtles in proper conditions, leading to many deaths (also diseases, such as salomenella). People do not know how to care for them, once again leading to many deaths. I have a problem with that. Quarter size turtles are sold, and I\'m sorry but they need a lot of caring for, which most people cannot give, possibly from the ignorance, expense of keeping them. I know that this law has led to the importing of turtles because of the cost of raising the turtles to legal sizes, but something should also be set in place to stop that as well.

Don\'t you guys think there is a problem here. Just walk into a pet store and look at the set up they have for RES. Its unacceptable. When I bought Ringo, he was in a small tank (where they keep the fish), in 70 degree water, with no basking light and no place to get fully dry. Unacceptable!! Think of how many people see this and think these are proper conditions since the pet store has it that way. I will say that I will never buy another turtle from any store. I will not add more to the demand. From now on its adopting for me.

I\'m sorry to get you and myself fired up, but I really think there should be laws put into effect in these areas. It makes me mad that these beautiful turtles have become more of a throw away pet.
turtlecrazed
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I agree that pet stores and flea markets have no business selling them. Perhaps the law should be revised to have people get a permit and follow a strict code of ethics. Rather than punish the few jerks who ruined it, this law has punished the ethical caring breeders. I didn\'t mean to sound harsh earlier, it\'s just i am so ill about the law being carried out the way it is.
Ibanezkid
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I know of one site that has been shut down because of the 4 inch law! If you go to Turtle-town.com there is a little note about them getting shut down. I don\'t know why, because on their site it says all turtles under 4 inches are sold for educational purposes only. Turtle-town was one my favorite sites to visit and look at. They were also the cheapest!
Last edited by Ibanezkid on Wed Oct 16, 2002 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
lulumac1
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I think we are in agreement turtlecrazed.
turtlecrazed
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Lulu,
With my understanding, Turtle town was involved at the raid at Lee Watson\'s reptile show. His turtles were not confiscated as of yet. But he has court dates coming up. This info was from posts i have read from other forums. Shawn of turtle town refused to surrender his turtles to the authorities and has chosen to fight the charges instead. HURRAY SHAWN!!!!!!
Why does this law affect good caring breeders and not the jerks who sale them at fairs, flea markets, etc. Their are even little road side vendors that sell them from what i understand. Geez, they aren\'t sodas.

Uh oh, here i go again.........
lulumac1
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quote:
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ginag wrote:
Hi-
My son and I went to a local county fair. We bought 3 small green turtles, about 1 1/2 inches long each, from a vendor. He said that he was not allowed to sell them at the fair for health reasons and that he kept them in his car. They were not in water and he told us that they didn\'t like water. They have yellow markings around their shells and yellow on their faces. I am worried that we are not taking proper care of them and would love to know just what kind they are and the proper care.
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By the way this is the kind of thing I\'m talking about. This was posted in the what kind of turtle am I section. This person unknowingly bought a turtle that was illegal. Selling turtles out of his car!! I\'m sure he\'s not the only person that does this, and he didn\'t even tell his customer how to take care of these turtles. They don\'t even know what kind of turtles they are. Say they are aquatic, unlike this person (its wonderful they\'re finding info) most will take the guys word for it and, you guess it, most will end up dying.
GlennThiltgen
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$$$ thats what it\'s all about
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I also agree, i am very interested in becoming a vet, and i am a senior in high school. the first place i saw baby turtles was at a carnival for a church, and when i saw them i felt sooo bad for those turtles, so i went over and talked to the owner of the booth. all the turtles were cramped in this little cage and there were dead ones in there.i went yelling at the manager of the booth, and said that was unacceptable and i was telling him how it was illegal to sell them,and he goes, im not it is a game, you win them so its techniqally not buying them, and then i go well what does that sign up there say, \" baby turtles, $30 each\" i go either you surrender those turtles, or i can get you arrested, at this point he was almost in tears, and he goes what are you doing, their just turtles, and i said what are you doing, trying to kill turtles. so he looked at me and he gave the 17(or something like that), but i know he had more in a truck, bt a least i got to save some of their lives. I talked to my friends that love animals as much as i do, and they all got tanks and the whole set up for them ,unfortunatly my parents wouldnt let me keep one, which i was really upset about. so then i was looking on the internet about breeders, and i think that that is the best way to get turtles. at the pet store they shove all of these big turtles in one small tank, they are all unhealthy and they are how old when you buy them. i think that it is very educational to try and raise turles since they are babies. well after i talked to my parents and convinced the about letting me get one, they finally agreed. So i went to turtle town.com and i instantly began to like the guy, he was full of information, and knew exactly what he was doing. I decided that he was the best person to get the turtles from, because he knew what he was doing, and by the way he talked, you knew he wasnt just in it for the money. so now i have a peninsula cooter and a mississippi map. It is very educational to me, and i think that it is very rewarding knowing that you were able to raise those turtles since they were very young to the day i wake up every morning. By the was i have a zoo at my house. 6 cats,(2 scottish folds, 2 americanshorthairs, and 2 regular cats)2dogs(basset hounds)1 dwarf rabbit, 4 fish tanks(1-20gal,2-6gal,1-2gal),and 2 turtles, and still building by the day. I think that if you buy a turtle under 4 inches, then you should have to sign a paper stating that you know what you are doing, and telling about how you are educated in the diseases, and the proper way to prevent them. its more trouble and work, but at least if you get sick and try to sue the guy or girl who sold it to you then tehy can pull out the paper shwing that you signed and you knew what you were getting into to. at leat thats my opinion! wow now my fingers hurt!!sorry for typing so much!
gina311
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i also agree
i bought 2 RES turtles at a flea market in PA
the man was selling the poor little guys in these small containers with a little bit of water! he didnt even know what kind of turtles they were! so i decided to do some research to find out for myself i found out they were aquatic turtles and i also found out what they needed basking area, a basking light, water heater, ect.
when i look back on that day i became very sad :~( i mean just thinking about all the turtles that die each year because of inproper care.

gina*
GlennThiltgen
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Never knew this topic would become so talked about. LOL!!
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