All Turtles Message Board

ryanandsuzyro · Level 3 Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 207

My friend Tucker, my year-old-slider, is awesome. I would not trade him for the world. My wife and I have invested a fair bit of money to ensure he has top-quality life, proper food, habitat and all his physical and other needs are met. I'm not interested in what is convenient for myself, I am interested in what the turtle needs.

With that said. As I have learned more about both keeping turtles as well as the practices and methods behind the sales of mass quantities of turtles at pet stores, I have come to a dilemma. Though I got Tucker from a pet store, I have since boycotted said pet store. I am having a hard time supporting mass-market pet turtle sales at all.

Reading horror stories and stories of frustration with pet stores and their handling of turtle sales is enough for me to want them to stop. The local pet store sells turtles, and isn't going to make sure a buyer knows what they're doing. They offer no warnings. They sell a "turtle starter kit" that any healthy slider will outgrow in two months, but most people wouldn't know that. They have kept a full adult turtle in with all the babies. My wife called the SPCA on them for that. We don't know what happened, but the next day the large turtle was no longer in the store. In general, and not just with turtles but many "exotic" pets (and sometimes even cats and dogs), a lot of pet stores are the worst places for pets to be!

I visited a much better pet store today, Big Al's aquarium. They had baby sliders, red-bellied turtles, yellow-bellied cooters, map turtles all for sale. All so adorable and cute. I know that at least one staff member there takes the time to inform customers that "they will GROW and they do BITE." Big Al's is a quality pet store, but I also note that they have some odd ideas about caring for turtles. It's not their specialty, let's say.

I also know this. Big Al's gets these baby turtles shipped from the east, in styrofoam boxes in little water. There's no heating on the belly of a plane or in a truck with these turtles. We saw a dead baby slider in a tank at another date, and the girl informed us that sadly, they are transported in these conditions and babies die commonly. Of course the mortality rate in the wild is high. It strikes me that it is cruel and foolish to breed millions of turtles and not bother to take the proper steps to keep them alive. The turtle population is being artificially increased for the purpose of pet sales, but it's done for $$$... it would cost money to heat the travel set-up, etc.

The other problem relates to people buying pets, really, in general. Will people take care of their pet? With turtles and reptiles, the added problem is "will people even be educated on HOW to take proper care of their pet?" How many baby turtles that survive to the pet store are bought by an owner who will take keeping seriously? And what of the babies that aren't sold? What happens to them?

My point in all of this is a severe ethical unease regarding the very trade that brought me my awesome little guy. My wife and I have decided that should we ever get another turtle, we will adopt a turtle that is unwanted. There is a society in our area that looks to rescue and then adopt out unwanted reptiles. We can not support the pet store trade of baby turtles again.

I would like to buy direct from a small-operation breeder. I know that not all breeders are ethical, but a person who really cares about his craft and husbandry and isn't just farming out millions of turtles for pure profit is more comfortable.

deesygirl · Moderator Joined: 12 Sep 2002 Posts: 1202

Oh yes, a subject I can relate too very well.

Mortality rates for baby turtles is somewhere around 90%. Most of them die in transport, soon after arriving at the pet stores. But many also die from lack of proper housing, diet and setup. Many babies are sold to people on the basis of a cheap pet easy to care for. Many people never realize the cost or the time it takes to raise them properly.

I support the 4" law, but I also wish it was harder to obtain reptiles for the common household. Many of these animals die horrific deaths. The Iguanna was the throw away pet for many years, now it sems the African Spurred Tortoise is taking that position. Rescues are full so many of these so most are put to sleep.
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http://www.anapsid.org/reslider.html

ryanandsuzyro · Level 3 Joined: 19 Nov 2006 Posts: 207

We don't have the 4" law in canada (heh. 10 centimeter law). In Alberta, it is illegal to sell turtles in pet stores, though the reptile expo had some tortoises.

Here in BC, they are talking of banning the sale of all exotic pets in the Vancouver area. Right now, though the pet store where I live in Abbotsford is still selling turtles in the way I described above. The bigger store has lots... etc.

Difficult subject. And whether or not it makes me a hypocrite, because Tucker is a pet store Slider, I support a ban. It should be much harder to get a hold of these and other exotic creatures which require good care.

There was a poster on the forum from Australia here a few months ago, describing how in Oz to keep a reptile you have to get a LICENSE and keep a journal, and turtles aren't cheap in general.

Jdude101 · Level 3 Joined: 03 Sep 2007 Posts: 191 Location: Georgia

i keep an observation journal thing on mine, because im interested in science, not really because i have them, but it is interesting. Our petstores have about a 4 3 foot by 2 foot area with 2 inches of water, and they keep about 5 adult 8 inch sliders in it. Some of the stores have actual aquariums for theirs, but the petsmart i live near doesn't

STRAYKINGFISHER · Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject:

From what I read in your post, the realization about the turtle trade came to you after having purchased your turtle, so guilt should not really apply here since most people do not realize what animals in the pet trade go through, if one dies it really doesn't matter to the seller, the turtle does all the work producing offspring, all he has to do is ship them and collect his money, unfortunately, one or two dead turtles are just casualties of the pet market.
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I-LOVE-TURTLES · Level 3 Joined: 22 Apr 2007 Posts: 240 Location: My House

I'm with you Deesy! I support the 4" rule!!! I have a friend that her turtle was on the brink of dieing because of poor distrubuting!! They sent the turtle to her in a death bowl!

Kayti

Alshon · Level 1 Joined: 15 Dec 2007 Posts: 13

I've never knew turtles are transported in such poor conditions. I live in New Jersey, USA and in this state it is illegal to sell turtles or tortoises of any size. I know from experience many pet stores do not inform you of how large something you are buying will grow and only tell you what they eat so you can buy it from their shelves.

skslover · Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:09 pm Post subject:

hi ryan i know i have helped you before but right now all i can do is say when my turtles have their babies i will see about bringing one to you you have been very kind and you deserve it I only buy from petstores that make sure the animals are treated properly and sometimes send people to care for them along the way one of theses stores is called petworld
if you can find one near you (very few so most likely not srry) thern buy your turtle there
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I miss my turtles spikeI and Buffy.I am glad to have Killer SpikeII and Sarih and Tiger.Luv the barn cats Pirrate Bindi Tigger Comet Poppy Onyx Snowball and Boo. Luv the dogs Baker Nike AlleyMay Bruno Boox2, and Shyshy. Luv the horses but mainly Shadow.

Linzlou83 · Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject:

Ryan and Deesy,
I totally agree with you guys. Just reading this site and seeing all of the mortality stories is so heartwrenching. Often I feel more sympathy for the turtle than I do the owner! Then they go out and get another one!

While the petstores and "quarter-sized" turtle markets are cruel and poorly managed in most cases, I also find those who "save" healthy, full grown turtles from the wild disheartening too. They introduce them into their home, keep them in a bucket and throw them some lettuce.

While I took in my Muckey as a hatching after almost running him over with a lawnmower, I am not one to talk, but it's a miracle that I found this site and was able to keep alive and healthy. I should have done the right thing and taken him to a nearby pond, but I can't turn back now. It's two years later and he's a wondeful pet. But I also know that very few people understand what a committment turtles are and do not keep them to the standard that they deserve.

Good to know that there are mature and aware pet owners like you to understand the harm done to these poor little guys in this industry and by wannabe hobbyists.
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I brake for turtles!